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	<title>Comments on: Job Seekers Advice</title>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://tar.weatherson.org/2005/05/05/job-seekers-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-3569</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 May 2005 14:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.weatherson.org/wp-tar/?p=1502#comment-3569</guid>
		<description>John:

The point concerns the value of negative papers, right? I say (truly, I think) that they can be extremely valuable. Obviously I&#039;m not saying that graduate students will probably have a very good one available. Just as obviously, it is improbable that they will have a very good positive paper available. My point is not to rule out presenting a negative paper _a priori_. 

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John:</p>
<p>The point concerns the value of negative papers, right? I say (truly, I think) that they can be extremely valuable. Obviously I&#8217;m not saying that graduate students will probably have a very good one available. Just as obviously, it is improbable that they will have a very good positive paper available. My point is not to rule out presenting a negative paper <em>a priori</em>. </p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://tar.weatherson.org/2005/05/05/job-seekers-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-3568</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 May 2005 10:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.weatherson.org/wp-tar/?p=1502#comment-3568</guid>
		<description>In response to Mike:

Indeed, it would be impressive if a job candidate could pull off something like that. However, it is unlikely that said candidate will. If you want a job, stick to positive papers (and check your desire to destroy at the door--that&#039;s grad school behavior).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to Mike:</p>
<p>Indeed, it would be impressive if a job candidate could pull off something like that. However, it is unlikely that said candidate will. If you want a job, stick to positive papers (and check your desire to destroy at the door&#8212;that&#8217;s grad school behavior).</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://tar.weatherson.org/2005/05/05/job-seekers-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-3567</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 16:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.weatherson.org/wp-tar/?p=1502#comment-3567</guid>
		<description>Suppose someone (finally) convincingly shows up the flaw in some perennial sort of argument. Something like the ontological argument has been criticized and revised from Gaunilo, Kant, Leibniz, down to Godel, Hartshorne, Plantinga, Lewis, and again more recently Sobel and Koons have the gloves on. 
   Would it show your philosophical immaturity that you finally, convincingly terminated that argument? It seems to me, hardly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suppose someone (finally) convincingly shows up the flaw in some perennial sort of argument. Something like the ontological argument has been criticized and revised from Gaunilo, Kant, Leibniz, down to Godel, Hartshorne, Plantinga, Lewis, and again more recently Sobel and Koons have the gloves on.<br />
   Would it show your philosophical immaturity that you finally, convincingly terminated that argument? It seems to me, hardly.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://tar.weatherson.org/2005/05/05/job-seekers-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-3566</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 May 2005 07:18:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.weatherson.org/wp-tar/?p=1502#comment-3566</guid>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Weatherson&#8217;s advice about delivering a positive paper at a job talk strikes me as true. In my experience, it applies not just to philosophy but to all of the humanities (especially if the job is for a junior position). In delivering a negative paper, one runs the risk of appearing as if one is still stuck in a graduate student mentality and not yet ready to enter the big league. In graduate school, one is taught to pick apart and bash lousy arguments. The hiring committee assumes that you already have these skills. In other words, giving a negative paper looks intellectually immature&#8212;they are the easiest kind of papers to write. In contrast, positive papers are extremely difficult to write because there are always caveats and counter-criticisms that one can never fully address in during the allotted time. If you feel that you must introduce negative material, keep it to a bare minimum (i.e. enough to contextualize your positive argument).</p>
<p>As a side note, I would like to suggest that a distinction be made between “critical” and “negative.” </p>
<p>positive paper = a paper that states what <strong>is</strong> the case and provides a solution</p>
<p>critical paper = a paper that meticulously assesses claims and counter-claims</p>
<p>negative paper = a paper that states what <strong>is not</strong> the case, pointing out problems without offering solutions.</p>
<p>While all papers should/must be “critical” not all have to be “negative.” Hope this helps.</p>
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		<title>By: Fritz</title>
		<link>http://tar.weatherson.org/2005/05/05/job-seekers-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-3565</link>
		<dc:creator>Fritz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 May 2005 21:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.weatherson.org/wp-tar/?p=1502#comment-3565</guid>
		<description>Advisors at the home institution should pull letters of the sort JC describes from the file. And unfortunately it does not go without saying that one should not write such letters: [ceteris paribus] one should decline to write rather than using the opportunity to plug one&#039;s own student. 

Similarly for minimalistic outside letters -- better to decline to write than to write &quot;I barely know this student and haven&#039;t read her work&quot; in job letter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Advisors at the home institution should pull letters of the sort JC describes from the file. And unfortunately it does not go without saying that one should not write such letters: [ceteris paribus] one should decline to write rather than using the opportunity to plug one&#8217;s own student. </p>
<p>Similarly for minimalistic outside letters &#8212; better to decline to write than to write &#8220;I barely know this student and haven&#8217;t read her work&#8221; in job letter.</p>
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		<title>By: J.C.</title>
		<link>http://tar.weatherson.org/2005/05/05/job-seekers-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-3564</link>
		<dc:creator>J.C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 May 2005 19:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.weatherson.org/wp-tar/?p=1502#comment-3564</guid>
		<description>Based solely on letters that I read during a search this past year, I would note that there may be one big problem with trying to get outside letters: outside letter-writers may be more likely to write negative references when you don&#039;t really expect it.  Specifically, I saw letters of the following type: &quot;Student X from neighboring school is o.k., but Student Y, who is my advisee from my school, is far better.&quot;  This might be particularly bad when student Y is also being considered for the job.  I would only ask for an outside reference if I had worked very closely with the professor.
     
Based both on this past year&#039;s search and my own recent time on the market, I would advise getting &quot;outside&quot; letters from within your department (by which I mean letters from people who are not on your dissertation committee and/or do not work in your general area).  For example, it can look very good if big name Professor Z found you to be an excellent student, scholar, and generally good person even if your work has nothing to do with Professor Z&#039;s work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Based solely on letters that I read during a search this past year, I would note that there may be one big problem with trying to get outside letters: outside letter-writers may be more likely to write negative references when you don&#8217;t really expect it.  Specifically, I saw letters of the following type: &#8220;Student X from neighboring school is o.k., but Student Y, who is my advisee from my school, is far better.&#8221;  This might be particularly bad when student Y is also being considered for the job.  I would only ask for an outside reference if I had worked very closely with the professor.</p>
<p>Based both on this past year&#8217;s search and my own recent time on the market, I would advise getting &#8220;outside&#8221; letters from within your department (by which I mean letters from people who are not on your dissertation committee and/or do not work in your general area).  For example, it can look very good if big name Professor Z found you to be an excellent student, scholar, and generally good person even if your work has nothing to do with Professor Z&#8217;s work.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim O'Keefe</title>
		<link>http://tar.weatherson.org/2005/05/05/job-seekers-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-3563</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim O'Keefe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 May 2005 14:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.weatherson.org/wp-tar/?p=1502#comment-3563</guid>
		<description>I think that this is good advice (especially the part about getting letters from outside people). However, you understate the help an applicant can get by having a publication or two in good places. Its primary benefit isn&#039;t just that it allows you to get an outside letter, but that it decisively shows that you have the ability to publish in good places, by actually having done so. I don&#039;t see why you&#039;d not pay attention to this in the hiring process, even for a junior person. Sure, it can be outweighed by other things, but for my money, production is one of the better indicators of promise.

BTW, people interested in more on this particular topic can see it being thrashed out in the comments section of Brian Leiter&#039;s blog last Fall, 

http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2004/11/advice_to_philo.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that this is good advice (especially the part about getting letters from outside people). However, you understate the help an applicant can get by having a publication or two in good places. Its primary benefit isn&#8217;t just that it allows you to get an outside letter, but that it decisively shows that you have the ability to publish in good places, by actually having done so. I don&#8217;t see why you&#8217;d not pay attention to this in the hiring process, even for a junior person. Sure, it can be outweighed by other things, but for my money, production is one of the better indicators of promise.</p>
<p><span class="caps">BTW</span>, people interested in more on this particular topic can see it being thrashed out in the comments section of Brian Leiter&#8217;s blog last Fall, </p>
<p><a href="http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2004/11/advice_to_philo.html" rel="nofollow">http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2004/11/advice_to_philo.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Allan</title>
		<link>http://tar.weatherson.org/2005/05/05/job-seekers-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-3562</link>
		<dc:creator>Allan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2005 20:23:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.weatherson.org/wp-tar/?p=1502#comment-3562</guid>
		<description>I think the stopped clock is in &quot;Human Knowledge: Its Scope and Limits&quot;; I can&#039;t find my copy right now.  In &quot;Problems&quot; he gives a case (A man believes that the last Prime Minister&#039;s last name begins with &quot;B&quot; but he is mistaken about who the last prime minister was) which (given a bit more specification) would be a counterexample to K=JTB, but he just uses it as a counterexample to K=TB. 

I think it would be interesting to do some systematic controlled studies about job market success.  I&#039;m rather skeptical of principles for job market success that aren&#039;t based on such research.  The reason is because smart people with equal experience going on the market or being on committees give contradictory advice.  &#039;Cover letters don&#039;t matter at all&#039;, &#039;The cover letter is the most important part of the application&#039;, &#039;A few publications is a prerequisite for making your application stand out&#039;, &#039;Publications don&#039;t matter&#039;, etc.  

Another way to put this is that anecdotal evidence seems to not be enough to justify any principle about what is important for a job seeker, but anecdotal evidence seems to be all _any_ of us have.  

I don&#039;t mean to be saying that there&#039;s no consensus about what would be ideal - lots of publications, good letters from a variety of institutions, teaching experience, etc. - but no claim of the form &quot;The most important n things for job seekers are x1 ... xn&quot; is justified for me, because all the testimonial evidence I have on claims of this sort is conflicting.  

Bill Hart says at the beginning of his book defending dualism that a friend defended an unorthodox view in print, and that subsequently three separate replies appeared, each claiming to present a definitive refutation.  Hart&#039;s friend, he reports, suspected that his original idea had been a good one when he noted that all three of the replies were inconsistent with the others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the stopped clock is in &#8220;Human Knowledge: Its Scope and Limits&#8221;; I can&#8217;t find my copy right now.  In &#8220;Problems&#8221; he gives a case (A man believes that the last Prime Minister&#8217;s last name begins with &#8220;B&#8221; but he is mistaken about who the last prime minister was) which (given a bit more specification) would be a counterexample to K=<span class="caps">JTB</span>, but he just uses it as a counterexample to K=TB. </p>
<p>I think it would be interesting to do some systematic controlled studies about job market success.  I&#8217;m rather skeptical of principles for job market success that aren&#8217;t based on such research.  The reason is because smart people with equal experience going on the market or being on committees give contradictory advice.  &#8216;Cover letters don&#8217;t matter at all&#8217;, &#8216;The cover letter is the most important part of the application&#8217;, &#8216;A few publications is a prerequisite for making your application stand out&#8217;, &#8216;Publications don&#8217;t matter&#8217;, etc.  </p>
<p>Another way to put this is that anecdotal evidence seems to not be enough to justify any principle about what is important for a job seeker, but anecdotal evidence seems to be all <em>any</em> of us have.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t mean to be saying that there&#8217;s no consensus about what would be ideal &#8211; lots of publications, good letters from a variety of institutions, teaching experience, etc. &#8211; but no claim of the form &#8220;The most important n things for job seekers are x1 &#8230; xn&#8221; is justified for me, because all the testimonial evidence I have on claims of this sort is conflicting.  </p>
<p>Bill Hart says at the beginning of his book defending dualism that a friend defended an unorthodox view in print, and that subsequently three separate replies appeared, each claiming to present a definitive refutation.  Hart&#8217;s friend, he reports, suspected that his original idea had been a good one when he noted that all three of the replies were inconsistent with the others.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://tar.weatherson.org/2005/05/05/job-seekers-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-3561</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2005 19:23:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.weatherson.org/wp-tar/?p=1502#comment-3561</guid>
		<description>Russell actually has a couple of examples (if memory serves me right, at least two of them appear in Problems of Philosophy). There may be other technical differences between his examples and Gettier&#039;s, but I think the biggest difference is merely this: Russell&#039;s examples appeared at the wrong point in the dialectic... Poor boy was too far ahead of the game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Russell actually has a couple of examples (if memory serves me right, at least two of them appear in Problems of Philosophy). There may be other technical differences between his examples and Gettier&#8217;s, but I think the biggest difference is merely this: Russell&#8217;s examples appeared at the wrong point in the dialectic&#8230; Poor boy was too far ahead of the game.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://tar.weatherson.org/2005/05/05/job-seekers-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-3560</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2005 19:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.weatherson.org/wp-tar/?p=1502#comment-3560</guid>
		<description>Speaking of Gettier, I have a question that&#039;s been bugging me for a long time, and it occured to me that maybe a philosopher who reads this blog would be able to answer it.  Or at least tell me what&#039;s wrong with the question, which is this: How does Gettier&#039;s example differ from Russell&#039;s from much earlier?  My understanding is that Gettier&#039;s example involves a justified true belief about someone owning a car, and Russell&#039;s example involves a justified true belief about the time of day, but neither one counts as knowledge because, somehow, it&#039;s incidental (and doesn&#039;t follow from the justification) that the belief is true.  In case this question makes me seem outrageously ignorant, I should say that I&#039;m not a philosopher, and I haven&#039;t read Russell&#039;s paper (I don&#039;t even know where this example appears), and I&#039;d accept as a response: &quot;You should just read Russell&#039;s paper&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of Gettier, I have a question that&#8217;s been bugging me for a long time, and it occured to me that maybe a philosopher who reads this blog would be able to answer it.  Or at least tell me what&#8217;s wrong with the question, which is this: How does Gettier&#8217;s example differ from Russell&#8217;s from much earlier?  My understanding is that Gettier&#8217;s example involves a justified true belief about someone owning a car, and Russell&#8217;s example involves a justified true belief about the time of day, but neither one counts as knowledge because, somehow, it&#8217;s incidental (and doesn&#8217;t follow from the justification) that the belief is true.  In case this question makes me seem outrageously ignorant, I should say that I&#8217;m not a philosopher, and I haven&#8217;t read Russell&#8217;s paper (I don&#8217;t even know where this example appears), and I&#8217;d accept as a response: &#8220;You should just read Russell&#8217;s paper&#8221;.</p>
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