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	<title>Comments on: The Evil Demon Argument</title>
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		<title>By: whitew</title>
		<link>http://tar.weatherson.org/2007/10/08/the-evil-demon-argument/comment-page-1/#comment-5187</link>
		<dc:creator>whitew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 13:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>For the not-very-much that it&#039;s worth, I think Descartes in Med 1 is using (a) dreams and (b) the evil demon as heuristics for error-possibilities and hence dubitability.  That is:  If it could be a dream, it might be false; if it could be the product of a demon&#039;s deception, it might be false; hence I will not trust it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the not-very-much that it&#8217;s worth, I think Descartes in Med 1 is using (a) dreams and (b) the evil demon as heuristics for error-possibilities and hence dubitability.  That is:  If it could be a dream, it might be false; if it could be the product of a demon&#8217;s deception, it might be false; hence I will not trust it.</p>
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		<title>By: P.D. Magnus</title>
		<link>http://tar.weatherson.org/2007/10/08/the-evil-demon-argument/comment-page-1/#comment-5186</link>
		<dc:creator>P.D. Magnus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 00:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tar.weatherson.org/2007/10/08/the-evil-demon-argument/#comment-5186</guid>
		<description>Brian,

Of your three would-be heterodoxies, I believe that 1 and 3 are widely held. As I recall Broughton, she&#039;d agree with them anyway. (As an aside, I doubt your strategy of presuming that Broughton&#039;s reading is the orthodoxy.)

2 seems false to me, because I do not think that there is a unique &quot;the sceptical argument with which Descartes is primarily concerned.&quot; The argument from madness/dreams and the argument from chance/poor design are distinct.

None of that answers your claim that the argument from past failure is a further distinct argument-- perhaps it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian,</p>
<p>Of your three would-be heterodoxies, I believe that 1 and 3 are widely held. As I recall Broughton, she&#8217;d agree with them anyway. (As an aside, I doubt your strategy of presuming that Broughton&#8217;s reading is the orthodoxy.)</p>
<p>2 seems false to me, because I do not think that there is a unique &#8220;the sceptical argument with which Descartes is primarily concerned.&#8221; The argument from madness/dreams and the argument from chance/poor design are distinct.</p>
<p>None of that answers your claim that the argument from past failure is a further distinct argument&#8212; perhaps it is.</p>
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		<title>By: Juan</title>
		<link>http://tar.weatherson.org/2007/10/08/the-evil-demon-argument/comment-page-1/#comment-5185</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 00:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Also, this seems to be the interpretation of Cottingham in &lt;em&gt;Descartes&lt;/em&gt;. I offer the following quotes not as an argument from authority, but just as indications of where I might have gotten my interpretation from.

Referring to the argument from sense deception, Cottingham says:

&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;the senses may deceive concerning tiny or distant objects, but there are some sense-based judgments which it seems I would be mad to doubt. (p. 29)&quot;&gt;

And a page later he says that &quot;Indeed, [Descartes] explicitly asserts that, despite my experience that the senses sometimes deceive, there are many sense-based beliefs about which doubt seems quite unreasonable.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, this seems to be the interpretation of Cottingham in <em>Descartes</em>. I offer the following quotes not as an argument from authority, but just as indications of where I might have gotten my interpretation from.</p>
<p>Referring to the argument from sense deception, Cottingham says:</p>
<p>
<blockquote cite="the senses may deceive concerning tiny or distant objects, but there are some sense-based judgments which it seems I would be mad to doubt. (p. 29)"></blockquote>
<p>And a page later he says that &#8220;Indeed, [Descartes] explicitly asserts that, despite my experience that the senses sometimes deceive, there are many sense-based beliefs about which doubt seems quite unreasonable.&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: Juan</title>
		<link>http://tar.weatherson.org/2007/10/08/the-evil-demon-argument/comment-page-1/#comment-5184</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 00:16:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Some of my reasons have to do with the flow of the First Meditation as a whole. Right after the passage you cite, Descartes goes on to briefly consider and reject the argument from madness, and then the dreaming argument, and I take it that the argument from sense-deception is left aside at that point. Some of my reasons, however, are extra textual and a mere application of the principle of charity. Premise 2 of the argument really is strikingly false, and its falsity even seems to be presupposed in claiming that we have evidence for 1.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of my reasons have to do with the flow of the First Meditation as a whole. Right after the passage you cite, Descartes goes on to briefly consider and reject the argument from madness, and then the dreaming argument, and I take it that the argument from sense-deception is left aside at that point. Some of my reasons, however, are extra textual and a mere application of the principle of charity. Premise 2 of the argument really is strikingly false, and its falsity even seems to be presupposed in claiming that we have evidence for 1.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Weatherson</title>
		<link>http://tar.weatherson.org/2007/10/08/the-evil-demon-argument/comment-page-1/#comment-5183</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Weatherson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 23:36:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Juan,

Why do you think Descartes takes himself to be pointing out that 2 is false? I should go back and check the original texts, but the Cottingham translation doesn&#039;t suggest that reading. Here the relevant sentence.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Yet although the senses deceive us with respect to objects which are very small or in the distance, there are many other beliefs about which doubt is quite impossible, though they are derived from the senses.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I take that to be Descartes lamenting the fact that we can&#039;t, as we should, doubt the fallible senses. To read it as a denial of your premise 2 you have to read the &#039;impossible&#039; there as some kind of normative judgment. (As in, impossible to properly do.) But I don&#039;t see why we should read it that way. One of the themes of Meditation One is that we aren&#039;t very good doubters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Juan,</p>
<p>Why do you think Descartes takes himself to be pointing out that 2 is false? I should go back and check the original texts, but the Cottingham translation doesn&#8217;t suggest that reading. Here the relevant sentence.</p>
<blockquote><p>Yet although the senses deceive us with respect to objects which are very small or in the distance, there are many other beliefs about which doubt is quite impossible, though they are derived from the senses.</p></blockquote>
<p>I take that to be Descartes lamenting the fact that we can&#8217;t, as we should, doubt the fallible senses. To read it as a denial of your premise 2 you have to read the &#8216;impossible&#8217; there as some kind of normative judgment. (As in, impossible to properly do.) But I don&#8217;t see why we should read it that way. One of the themes of Meditation One is that we aren&#8217;t very good doubters.</p>
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		<title>By: Juan</title>
		<link>http://tar.weatherson.org/2007/10/08/the-evil-demon-argument/comment-page-1/#comment-5182</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 23:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tar.weatherson.org/2007/10/08/the-evil-demon-argument/#comment-5182</guid>
		<description>When I teach the First Meditation, I reconstruct the past failures argument like this:

1. The senses have deceived us in the past.
2. We should never trust those who have deceived us even once.
Therefore,
3. We should never trust the senses.

And I go on to say that, immediately after presenting this argument, Descartes himself points out that premise 2 is false. So I guess I agree with your 1  (besides the past failures and the evil demon argument, we also have, in the First Meditation, the argument from origins (I was either created by God or by lesser causes, and in either case I am liable to be radically deceived), the argument from madness (which Descartes also immediately discards, although for no clearly good reason) and, of course, the dreaming argument. I also agree with your 3, actually, except that, in my interpretation, the evil demon is a reminder of what the argument from origins (and not the argument from previous mistakes) taught us, and so I disagree with your 2.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I teach the First Meditation, I reconstruct the past failures argument like this:</p>
<p>1. The senses have deceived us in the past.<br />
2. We should never trust those who have deceived us even once.<br />
Therefore,<br />
3. We should never trust the senses.</p>
<p>And I go on to say that, immediately after presenting this argument, Descartes himself points out that premise 2 is false. So I guess I agree with your 1  (besides the past failures and the evil demon argument, we also have, in the First Meditation, the argument from origins (I was either created by God or by lesser causes, and in either case I am liable to be radically deceived), the argument from madness (which Descartes also immediately discards, although for no clearly good reason) and, of course, the dreaming argument. I also agree with your 3, actually, except that, in my interpretation, the evil demon is a reminder of what the argument from origins (and not the argument from previous mistakes) taught us, and so I disagree with your 2.</p>
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